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tv   Up W Steve Kornacki  MSNBC  December 8, 2013 5:00am-7:01am PST

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now that factory is closed and cas is making more money by giving up most of the big deals. for more, watch "your business" sunday mornings at 7:30 on msnbc. year after newtown, will congress do even the least it can do? another cold december morning as we draw closer to the shortest day of the year. we find ourselves starting to think about time. time, which is running out on a law that keeps plastic guns from being able to make it through metal detectors at airports and schools. and if congress does renew the law in time this week, it may come with a pretty big loophole. is anything going to happen this week? we'll also be taking a look this morning at everyone's fascination with the new pope. pope francis. with what may be an evolution on his part away from hot button
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social issues and toward economic ones. he's got liberals loving him. he's got conservatives attacking him. he's like no pope we have seen before. speaking of the catholic church, since it is a sunday, we thought we would introduce or maybe reintroduce our guests to the sacrament of confession, unburdening ourselves of our unpopular political opinions. stick around for that. when is an important question in politics, so is where. as in where do you live, where do you come from? we'll talk liz cheney, scott brown, and the art of carpetbagging. we have five easy steps to make sure you don't mess it up. but, first, no one likes waiting in line to go through airport security. but it is something we all have to do. we do it willingly. we do it patiently, usually. just as we have done for the past 40 years. before then, before the 1970s, u.s. airports did not have that much in the way of security. but a spate of airline
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hijackings changed that and it led to metal detecters in american airports in 1973. once metal couldn't get through, guns couldn't get through. that was the idea at least. what if metal detectors or x-ray machines weren't enough, what then? what if plastic guns became a perfectly legal thing to have in this country? what if a kind of detector you would need to keep the plastic firearms from getting through? the u.s. does have a law banning any guns that can go undetected by metal detectors and x-ray machines, a law set to expire tomorrow night. the clock is ticking for congress to renew it. this week on tuesday, this past week, the house did vote to extend the law as is. which means it is now up to the senate to renew the law as well. the trouble is, there are some lawmakers who say the current legislation is out of date. it was written in 1988, 25 years ago when, quite frankly, the idea of a plastic gun that could fire real bullets and not tap water was more science fiction. this week on tuesday, the house voted to extend that law.
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sorry. got a little teleprompter screw up here. i'm reading the same thing over and over again. but the -- it is on to the senate now, and what is -- what makes it so complicated in the senate is the fact that senators are basically -- some senators, particularly democratic senators, who are saying that the law doesn't go far enough as it is currently written. so the question now, the dilemma now, that the senate faces is do you pass this law, do you renew this law that was created in 1988, take the attention you can get on that for another ten years, or do you wage a fight, push a fight here, saying we want this law to go farther, we want new provisions in there that would make it impossible for guns that would be printed on the new 3d printers that are coming out, that would make it impossible for those guns to pass through airport security. so that is the dilemma that they are -- that they are facing. now to give you a little history and context for this, you have to go back to the last time that there was a major successful push in this country for new gun laws. it was a long push.
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it took 12 years. it started in 1981. started when president ronald reagan had just finished speaking. the afl-cio at the washington hilton. within moments of that speech, that hotel gained a new nickname, the hinckley hilton. president was shot, taken to george washington university hospital, and this is where some of the legend of ronald reagan comes from. the story goes his doctors and nurses frantically attended to his wounds, he turns to a secret service agent and said, i hope they're all republicans. turned out reagan would be okay that day. but it was a closer call, much closer call we learned in the years since then than just about anybody who realized at the time. fate was a lot less kind to his press secretary, james brady. first bullet struck him in the head and brady was permanently disabled. left in persistent pain. he officially remained the white house press secretary for the rest of reagan's presidency, but that was ceremonial. never performed that role again. he worked full time on his recovery for the rest of the administration and as james brady tended to his health in
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the 1980s, his wife sarah, daughter of an fbi agent, grew more and more interested and impassioned about a simple question what could our government do what could law enforcement do, what could all of us do through our political system to prevent tragic stories like her family's? she worked on gun control issues in the 1970s, but never like this. in 1986, five years after her husband's shooting, after congress actually relaxed some federal gun restrictions, sarah brady was so moved she became the face of a group called handgun control incorporated. and she set a goal, a legislative goal, something that would be called the brady bill. seven-day waiting period for the purchase of a handgun. like we were saying, these things do take time. sarah brady spoke up, spoke out, pushed for the brady bill, and nothing happened. and then ronald reagan left office in 1989, and jim brady decided at that point it was time for him to speak up as well, and he did so in moving testimony before congress.
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>> of course i am honored to be here, but it is not the honor that compelled me to appear before you today. it is the anger. anger at a congress that just a year ago failed to pass a measure which would reduce handgun violence by plaguing our nation. i had no choice but to be here today because of too many members of congress have been gutless on this issue. i'm not here to complain. but since you're here, i'll complain a little. >> for all he had been through, jim brady still had his wits and his charm and still had some pull. took another two years but on the tenth anniversary of the shooting of ronald reagan, brady's old boss returned to george washington university with him, and he made a surprise announcement. >> i want to tell all of you here today something that i'm not sure you know. you do know that i'm a member of the nra.
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and my position on the right to bear arms is well known. but i want you to know something else. and i'm going to say it in clear, unmistakable language. i support the brady bill and i urge the congress to act. >> there was a standing ovation and reagan wasn't through. >> just plain common sense that there be a waiting period to allow local law enforcement officials to conduct background checks on those who wish to buy a handgun. >> and there it was, the voice of the modern conservative revolution talking about plain common sense when it came to gun laws. reagan then went over to the white house to visit with president george h.w. bush. on the record opposing the brady bill. according to the new york times, a national rifle association
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official heard of reagan's announcement, looked at the picture he kept on his desk and said, don't do this to me. but for all of that, reagan support's support by itself still wasn't enough. the bush administration came and went and still there was no brady bill. it took another election. the election of 1992, in which sarah brady, a life-long republican, the daughter of that fbi agent, she supported the democrat, bill clinton. she supported him because he supported the brady bill. and in the fall of clinton's first year in office, with clinton's party in control of the house and of the senate, it actually happened. >> in the east room of the white house today, it was not just an ordinary presidential ceremony, the end of a long road for jim and sarah brady, parents of the brady bill. >> that was a road more than 12 years long. but at last gun control supporters could smile. the brady bill was now law. >> and now we're here to tell the nra that their nightmare is
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true, we're back. we're not going away after brady. we have a lot to do. >> chuck schumer, a much younger congressman chuck schumer back then and wasn't entirely wrong when he said that. congress did pass and clinton did sign an assault weapons ban months later. when they lost in a landslide in the 1994 midterms, many democrats blamed their gun activism for it. they did so again when al gore lost the white house in 2000. 2004, at sault weapons ban was up for renewal, it was some clamoring from some democrats but republicans were in control on capitol hill by then and the ban expired. when the brady bill became a reality there was a promise of a wave of new gun control laws but wasn't to be. in the 20 years since then there has been columbine, there has been virginia tech, there has been aurora, there has been so many tragedies like these. one year ago next week, there was newtown. sandy hook elementary school, the mass shooting that took the lives of 20 children, 6
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teachers. when that happened, everyone it seemed, at least, everyone agreed that something should be done, that something finally would be done. but here we are, a year later, and nothing. maybe, maybe we will see this week the reauthorization of an outdated gun law to keep plastic guns off airplanes. maybe. and if that happens, that will be it. that will be the total sum of successful gun legislation in the 365 days after newtown. that's a lesson, a sobering maddening lesson of how the brady bill became the brady law. gun legislation can take time. it can take 12 years. that was back when congress got more done. what is the realistic timetable now? does it have to stay this way? to discuss this all, i want to bring in ana marie cox, sah sahi kapur, benjy sarlan and ann lewis.
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thank you, all, for joining us. i apologize to you and the viewers for the teleprompter malfunction at the beginning of this. you make fun of how people on tv become so reliant on that and then you're up there and i have sympathy for anyone who has been through that before. we got through that history on that and i think that history sets up -- you know, the moment we're at right now this week, the small picture right now is this plastic guns bill, the big picture is the question of newtown and how nothing has happened. let's start with the question of what going to happen or not happen on capitol hill this week with this -- pass the house, the reauthorize this plastic weapons ban, democrats like chuck schumer saying they want to expand this, account for the 3d technology in the senate. what is going to happen this week? >> i think what is going to happen is the senators that want to go further, who say this is not enough and the issue of 3d printed guns needs to be dealt with, they'll make that position on but they'll pass the house bill at the end of the day. everyone admits that's better than nothing and the reality,
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the sad depressing reality is if y you have to get the nra support to pass any gun bill. i think that's what's going to happen at the end of the day. >> part of the sort of political strategy of this is i think is one of the reason -- chuck schumer has been talking about making this a one-year extension. the idea being maybe if you extend it for a year, it comes up after the 2014 elections and then maybe you can pick up -- we're hearing about the republicans who are scared of tea party primary challenges. maybe then you can -- after the election, you can pick them off in the lame duck session. it is a strategy to maybe get more comprehensive gun legislation then. is that -- you start looking at the futility of the last year, is that the way to think now if you have to get anything through. >> you have to think long-term and be strategic. i appreciate you starting with the little bit of history. we were finally -- there were a lot of problems, we were able to pass legislation in the '90s.
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why? if you look at it, you had ronald reagan early '90s. i'll start there. ronald reagan speaking out, you had bipartisan support around the assault weapon ban. and at some point the crime bill. you have law enforcement officials. and this really was about they're being the face of the bill. i think those two pieces, you can't get bipartisan support, more law enforcement officials will turn out to be really essential. second comes the '94 election. it stops. i think we need more good political news. what political news do we have? interesting. 2012 election, perfectly clear there were differences between barack obama and his opponents on the issues of guns. he won. virginia election, even more important because a border state, 2013, governors election, very different, debated some, terry mcauliffe very clear on where he was on gun safety. he won. on the other hand, earlier in 2013 -- >> colorado.
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>> the rico elections in colorado. >> which is more representative. i think virginia says a little bit more. but i wanted to talk about this bill and how even in the history that you showed, we have a history as a country to only react to massive tragedies, like that's our reason to pass any kind of gun legislation. when really, like, the day to day violence in our country is what stands out from the rest of the world. and actually as i'm sure everyone here knows, suicides outnumber gun violence homicides in this country by kind of a lot. there is a cdc report just last month that showed in the 50 most populous cities in the country, suicides outnumber homicides by 18,000. >> but the mass tragedy, that's the amazing thing as we sort of come up on this anniversary, this one-year anniversary, the mass tragedy didn't in this case, in the case of the columbine, it didn't trigger any legislative action. >> and it triggered quite the attempt at getting there. the president really put his full force behind this, a lot of
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members of congress. but i remember right after that shooting, i talked to mark blaze, the executive director of mayors against illegal guns, michael bloomberg's big money operation to pass the laws. the way they talked about it then was that they were trying to overcome this grassroots advantage, the nra has, mayor bloomberg is $20 billion, can pump a lot of money into this. but the difference is that the nra has 4 million to 5 million members and when they get an action alert, they'll call their congressmen, turn out to vote in low turnout legislative elections in colorado, they will write letters to their editor, and what they were trying to do with this tragedy and the attention around it is convince more people on the other side to take that extra step, to start paying attention, signing up, listening to these action alerts, listening to the e-mails and it seems on a basic level they just haven't been able to replicate what the nra has. >> i think that is one small point, larger election, general elections, larger turnout, the fact that most people do have common sense views about this
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will succeed. the smaller we get, the more motivated you have to be to turn out, again, the harder it is to pass. as we do our strategy going forward, take both of those -- >> another thing we mentioned is you have the assault weapons ban passed in 1994, they let it lapse in 2004. to just get the assault weapons back -- ban back would be going back in history 20, 10 years and at the outset of the legislative debate we had this year, the futile legislative debate, one thing taken off the table is the assault weapons ban. we're not even talking about getting back to the level we were at a decade ago. >> what son the table now what people wanted, the big thing people wanted after newtown was background checks. you need the nra support to get anything done. 90% of the public supported it and couldn't get through the democratic senate, let alone the republican house. the nra will say jump, the entire republican party and a fraction of the democratic party will do it. what happens now in congress, i don't see anything other than
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perhaps an extension of this, because it is such an egregious thing, the idea of getting guns past metal detectors and getting them to places where they shouldn't be, i think the house will pass it, i think the senate will do it and talk about where to go next. this is on the table. it will come up again. it is a matter of time. i don't know when. >> we have one of those democratic senators charged with deal with that this week, he'll join us right after this. asional have constipation,
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talking about gun control and the plastic gun law going before the senate this week. it will be reconvening from the thanksgiving break tomorrow. joining us from stanford, connecticut, one of the leading advocates, senator richard blumenthal of connecticut. we were talking in first segment about we are coming up on the horrible one-year anniversary of the tragedy in your state.
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if there was a consensus, a political consensus in the aftermath of that, it was that finally something was going to be done legislatively about gun violence in this country after newtown. and here we are, a year later, and the background checks, you know, failed. we're talking about just extending a 1988 law, the fact the nra got through the past year without anything more comprehensive happening, is the nra stronger now than it was a year ago? >> i don't think so. i think that the majority of americans still favor common sense, sensible legislation like background checks, mental health initiative, and a ban on straw purchases and illegal trafficking. these kinds of common sense measures, i think, are a matter of consensus, not only among the majority of americans, but even the majority of gun owners. the remarkable history that you presented and thank you for doing it earlier, indicates that these fights for gun violence prevention are not a sprint, they are a marathon.
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12 years makes 12 months look like a sprint. and so i think that we need to be persevering and persistent, what has been most impressive over the past year, speaking very personally, are the strength and courage and resilience of these families who have dedicated their lives, just as sarah brady did, to making sure that america is made safer and better. and we cannot allow this undetectible firearms act to lapse. we're talk about plastic guns that have absolutely no use in hunting or recreational shooting. they're designed simply to kill people, and evade the metal detectors we have at our sports arenas, courthouses, schools, as well as airports. >> so, senator, that's the dispute right now, the dilemma, i guess, facing you and your fellow democrats in the senate, do you take the law as it is and as the house voted for it last
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week, and just extend it, or do you say the law is insufficient because of this new 3d printing technology and have a showdown over expanding this law a little bit? are you good with just extending the law as is and saying we need to get this done now, or do you want to have more of a legislative showdown here? >> a short-term extension perhaps, maybe for a year, so that we can deal with the new technologies. just so you understand what is at stake here, and senator schumer is absolutely right in his really great leadership on this issue, the 3d technology is advancing so quickly that pretty soon access to using this printer, to make a plastic weapon, without having to buy it from a manufacturer, is going to be more and more widely available. what does that mean? it means that the metallic portion of existing plastic
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manufactured guns, required to be 3.7 ounces, so that it can be detected, soon will not be an essential feature of many of these plastic weapons. so it is a loophole that needs to be closed. otherwise, the metal detectors simply won't work on plastic guns. and that's why it is so important that we extend it, if we do, without closing that loophole, only for a short period of time, so that we can deal with this advancing technology. >> we are -- we are also talking about the political incentives that exist for both political parties when it comes to, you know, how they're going to vote on gun control issues. talking about how the democrats passed the brady bill in 1993, passed assault weapons ban and got an electoral blowback in the entire party, in the years following that, de-emphasized gun control. i'm wondering, as you talk to your colleagues in the senate side, maybe on the house side, as you talk to your colleagues in washington, we were talking earlier about what happened in colorado this year, where
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members of the states -- democratic members of a state in a swing state voted for relatively speaking modest gun control out there and they were recalled, they lost their jobs, the voters kicked them out of office this year. has that resonated with your colleagues and sapped some of their will to pursue gun control progressively? >> i don't think so. i think my colleagues look at the bigger picture, as you called it, the historic picture, and history is clearly on our side. there will be recall elections and write-in campaigns and movements of the moment. but in fact, in the long run, americans are on the side of gun safety, even the hunters. let's look at the record here, eventually favored common sense measures, who wants deranged or dangerous mentally ill people or criminals or drug addicts to have guns. that legislation banning those
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people from having guns passed with the support of the nra. what we're talking about with background checks is simply a means to enforce that law by doing checks to keep guns out of their hands. likewise, with mental health initiatives, there is strong bipartisan support for a major initiative that would have identified and treated and helped a person like adam lanza or others at the naval yard shooting or elsewhere that essentially need that kind of help. nancy lanza herself, his mother, probably could have used it. so this kind of common sense basic measure supported by law enforcement, i think, will come eventually and my colleagues, i think, want to do the right thing. and that measure will be bipartisan. >> we're going to keep an eye on that. want to thank senator richard blumenthal for taking a few minutes this morning. across america people are taking charge
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it will be hard, but the time is now. you must act. >> former congresswoman gabrielle giffords at the senate judiciary committee in january. we'll pick this back up at table. we were talking about one of the differences between now and 20 years ago when real gun legislation was getting through was the climate of crime. in the early 1990s, i think we have a poll here, this is in 1994, at sault weapons ban was passed in 1994, we took a poll and asked people what is the biggest issue facing america, the top answer was crime. this is 1994. if you take that same poll today, you have in 2013, crime and violence comes in at 2%. how much of the story is this? >> i think that's probably main story. i think that, and it is also true, like, let's get that out
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of the way, crime and violence, gun violence is down since then. but i'm just going to say it again, as long as we continue to focus on mass shootings and sort of individual tragedies to get gun laws passed, like we're not going to be as successful as people seeing everyday violence in their lives. in that poll, people understood there is gun violence happening every day. it is not just happening every once in a while in a way that -- >> they felt it threatened them. it is coming to your community. >> there is going to be a person with a gun that will threaten you at some point. and people just have lost that fear, which on the one hand, yea, you know, like we live in a safer society. and on the other hand, we can still do more. we can still do more. i also wanted to ask, is there anyone arguing proactively on the side of plastic guns? >> i think what the debate is, though, it is about republicans not wanting this to go any further. they don't want that yone year extension. >> that's right. it is, unfortunately, we
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attribute it to the power of the nra, they don't have to make these arguments public. they just have to pass the work quietly among members of the house and senate that they don't want any extension. and, of course, they pass it to their own members. that's a place we want to get to. for those of us who care about gun safety, for those of us who care, senator blumenthal said common sense gun law, we need similar infrastructure. >> here is one of the problems with that, even if you get that infrastructure, where you apply real electoral pressure, where do you apply it? we're in an election cycle now where we had this huge shutdown, we had all this trouble with the obama carrolloe rollout, all th tumult. there are a few races that are a true tossup. part of the problem now is that because of gerrymandering and geographic trends and geographic polarization, there aren't a lot
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of members of congress now who need to think about that threat from the middle. >> and there is also -- i feel like this is one of those issues, too, where it depends on the context of how people are thinking about it. in the wake of newtown, when you ask people about background checks, we see all the polls that say 90%. 90%, how could congress not act in the 90% issue. here is the poll that came out this week. stricter gun control laws, do you support or oppose stricter gun control laws. 50% to 49%. almost half the country is basically saying, no, we don't want background checks. >> that's a six point dip from after newtown. the lesson here is if you want to get something done, you need to take the opportunity when the country is paying attention, when the people are personally affected by seeing 20 children being gunned down by a crazy person with a gun. i think on a really important dynamic to keep in mind on capitol hill with the nra is that personally i think they want to be a lot more reasonable than they are, but they face the equivalent of a primary
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challenge every day. there is a group called the gun owners of america that is much more hard-line that is pushing them further and further -- >> pushing -- >> the nra further to the right, because they're taking the hard-line stance that even these things, they're opposed to extending this current ban from 1988, so the nra has taken a position where they don't want to lose all credibility on capitol hill, and all credibility among moderate reasonable people by saying let's extend this, don't go any further. if they do support things like background checks and want to expand this, they'll start losing most of the further right group. some reporting found that they were open to it at first. people like senator coburn who were dealing with this, were negotiating with senator schumer on this, but the pressure from the gun owners of america moved the nra which -- >> i asked senator blumenthal, if the gun lobby emerges from the last year stronger than it was, weirdly, tragically, terribly enough, stronger than
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before newtown. >> there is something -- the number of gun owners in country increased, but the number of guns each gun owner owns has increased. with the nra, classically, there is no more moderate alternative there is to the right alternative, but the nra is the default organization for people who are recreational hunters. my dad was a member of the nra because he likes to go on gun range and shoot guns responsibly. and there is no place for him to go. he's resigned now. but there is no place to go to be someone who wants to contribute to gun safety and to be a part of a membership of gun owners who are fans of safe and common sense gun laws. >> just as quickly, does anybody think this congress will end january of 2015, does anybody think that there will be background checks, any kind of meaningful gun legislation
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between now and then? >> it will take a miracle. >> no way. >> not before -- >> or something more -- a tragedy, or a miracle or sadly to say this, a tragedy. >> one tragedy after another, we can go back to columbine in the 1990s -- >> we have to keep building towards it. between now and 2016, i think we're on a different trajectory. but i think trying to do this, a, before 2014, when we already know midterm elections, i'm going to go back to lower turnout, it is the most difficult terrain. you need elections that bring a lot of people to the polls. and, second, some of the most mother na marginal people are in southern states. there is a regional difference here and be sensitive to it. >> 2016. >> what i would add between 1993 and now, the pro gun side outspent the other side 20-1. >> that's interesting now with michael bloomberg leading office here, interesting to see what he does next. we're going to give everyone
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undercover at the oscars, improvising, trying to kill time and demonstrating perfectly the art of saying something incredibly, totally unpopular, which brings us to twitter this week. which, for a moment, became that open venue for people to unleash their inner frank drebbens, to let out the unpopular thoughts they have been keeping from the world. we'll give our guests the same open forum, right here, in front of everyone, on live national television. every day we're working to be an even better company -
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this season, discover aleve. all day pain relief with just two pills. [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life. [ whistle blowing ] where do you hear that beat? campbell's healthy request soup lets you hear it in your heart. [ basketball bouncing ] heart healthy. [ m'm... ] great taste. [ tapping ] sounds good. campbell's healthy request. m'm! m'm! good.® minute, there are a few things i would like to get off my chest. i'm against animals being abused by their owners. that's horrible. i don't like people who commit hate crimes. and pardon me, but cancer, count me among those who say we should definitely be trying hard to cure that. the sooner, the better. now that i've unburdened myself, i have to bring up a twiter theme this week that asked people to do the exact opposite of what i just did. asked them to courageously confess their unpopular
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opinions. people were encouraged to put aside not just their own sensitivities, but the sensitivities of others and say whatever they have been afraid to share until now. so, for example, politico's ben wright wrote, quote, i dislike almost all of paul mccartney's music and i hate john lennon's song "imagine." igor offered this, yoda was a coward. and forbes jacqueline smith chimed in, pizza is better without the cheese. i worked in a pizza place one time, made a few pizzas without cheese and the customers didn't agree. i would like all of us to express our own unpopular political opinions and before we begin, i want to welcome to the table, reporter and tweeter sarah posner and to start with anna marie, because she participated earlier this week and said glenn beck is super smart, and would be fascinating to get to know. limbaugh also smart, butexpleti
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one. ana marie, you can elaborate on that one, your unpopular opinion. >> i listen to limbaugh and beck a fair amount. i need to -- i feel i need to keep up on what the other side is saying and what their logic is. limbaugh is a great entertainer enama and amazing how he twists things. beck, what i like about him, he has a very earnest enthusiasm for the forum of radio and television. he clearly is having a good time when he does these things. and, you know, he's kind of crazy, but it takes a lot of mental energy to keep all these conspiracy theories straight in your head, so i admire that. and i just think he would be very interesting to talk to. >> do you think he's more genuine than limbaugh? i do, duactually. i think he's genuine. unlike limbaugh, he is activism about everything he believes in.
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glenn beck found out that levis are made in china, he started a company to make american jeans, which i think is kind of cool. i also wanted to add to this, though, this is something that me and glenn beck and i probably agree on, i said this during the break, i also think shooting guns is fun. i have -- i grew up in texas. my grandfather had guns. my father has guns. i go to rifle ranges. it is fun to do. i get why people want to protect that right. i think i shouldn't be able to get those guns easily. >> i thought this was building up to i voted for romney last year. let's get another sampling. sahil, confess, what is your unpopular -- >> my unpopular opinion is i think congress needs more nonreligious people. atheists, agnostics, call them what you want to, they're 20% of america and not a single member of congress openly identifies as atheist, agnostic or nonbeliever. i think that's sad.
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>> what would a congress look like that would have 20 -- >> there is one congresswoman from arizona that identified that way and then immediately disowned it. it is reflective of society where those are dirty words and secular society that was founded in part to run away from religious tyranny, i think that's kind of sad. >> sarah, our resident religion expert at the table, you have a religious unpopular -- >> i have a related unpopular opinion to sahil's, which is that politicians should stop talking about religion, god and the bible. >> so -- >> people would be less -- public polly would icy would be less on -- >> why is in no safe zone in politics? >> 20% of the american public is
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not affiliated with a particular religion. there is a smaller segment of those who are atheist than agnostic. still, as he points out, it is kind of amazing that given the rise in the number of american atheists and nonbelievers there is not a single one in the u.s. congress and that it would be poison to run and openly declare you're an atheist. look at mark pryor's ad where he talked about the bible and he doesn't have all the answers, only god has all the answers. it is, like, well, if you don't have answers, why are you running for office? >> but flip it around, though. there has to be some -- to an elected official who sincerely believes in higher power, practices their faith, there has to be some civic value in that too, right? maybe professes -- >> as americans for the most part, we're taught not to talk about religion with other people in general. like why is it okay to -- >> politics and religion -- >> we're not supposed to talk
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about -- >> would be out of business. >> would be out of business, but most americans probably don't talk about religion on a regular basis. why is it that's the one place that we're supposed to talk about it all the time? even though it is a divisive issue, no matter what, even if you're someone that is 20% that has a nonaffiliation, you probably have some kind of, like, spiritual, higher power, belief, and it is probably not the same as someone else's so we tend to not talk about it, which i also, like, why does it have to be something even discussed if we don't talk about it at the dinner table, why do we expect our politicians to have opinions. >> it reinforces there is a certain kind of religious belief that is acceptable in public policy discussions, or in a political campaign. and that particular religious belief is i believe in the bible, i believe that the bible is the literal word of god, i believe jesus christ is my savior. there are a lot of americans who don't, you know, who have religious beliefs that don't comport with that. >> as you say that, confess your unpopular opinions, ultimately
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what you're saying probably there is more on the other side of that now. it is an interesting opinion. benjy, we have not heard from you yet. haven't heard from me either. haven't heard a few of the more interesting ones we found on twitter. and within budget. angie's list members can tell you which provider is the best in town. you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare. now that we're expecting, i like the fact i can go onto angie's list and look for pediatricians. the service providers that i've found on angie's list actually have blown me away. find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust.
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we're confessing, here are a few more we found on twitter. frequent guest of the show business, josh barro, elites are usually elite for good reason, intend to have better judgment than the average person. definitely an unpopular opinion there. houston chronicle's mike glen, aaron sorkin is a terrible screenwriter who has never written a true sentence in his life. probably not as -- that's probably unpopular. benjy, join the pile. >> this one i know is extremely unpopular because there is a lot of polling on it. that is term limits for members of congress. i'm against term limits for members of congress. i like them for presidents, for governors, for mayors, not for legislators. i think you lose valuable
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expertise when you kick out the few people who know how things run after decades of service. >> i am totally with you on that. the strongest case that i make for it would be that you have an entire branch of congress, kicking everybody out, entire branch of the government, everybody is kicked out after eight years, that makes the president, the executive branch a lot more powerful. >> can i add on to that, i agree with you. and another reason is that if you stay in congress long enough, you have the radicalism beat out of you. like you do have to learn how to compromise. it is through, like, when people say you go to congress and you become inert and you become part of the problem, because you're part of the structure, because you have to make connections and compromises, yes, that is exactly what happens. i think radicalism in congress is bad too. >> we know this -- >> ideological purity is bad. >> we have an unusually high percentage of the current congress that only showed up in the last couple of turns. i think it is about 200 members or something like that. they have been the ones where you have to kind of explain to them, by the way, when we passed this debt ceiling thing, if we
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don't pass it, the whole economy collapses. >> the older members who have to slowly walk them through. >> the last couple of years have been a pretty good demonstration of the value and not having term limits. we're running out of time. i got a few here i might as well share in no particular order, i'll put them out there. gerald ford was right to pardon richard nixon. i don't know if that is popular. i think he was. i don't like -- i hate -- i hate the idea of a balanced budget amendment. at the federal level. maybe different at the state level. i cheer against -- let me qualify this, when it comes to basketball, in the summer olympics, i tend to cheer against -- i tend to cheer for the team playing the united states, in basketball only, because the united states is such a -- this is really unpopular. because the -- it is such a -- they're beating up on the -- the united states versus this toiny
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country. i shouldn't have confessed it. and that's the danger of this segment. >> in new york to say that. >> i'm sorry. i love you, america. political figure came to office with a very conservative reputation, seems to be changing his tune. and he's winning praise from president obama. that's next. i have low testosterone. there, i said it. see, i knew testosterone could affect sex drive, but not energy or even my mood. that's when i talked with my doctor. he gave me some blood tests... showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% testosterone gel. the #1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy increases testosterone when used daily. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman,
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our current situation seems rather extreme. why can't we maximize our... ready. ♪ brilliant. let's get out of here. warp speed. ♪ we talk about how fast attitudes are changing in this country when it comes to gay rights, how rapidly laws are changing when it comes to gay marriage. it really was a radical concept, a decade ago, when the supreme court in massachusetts declared gay marriage legal by two to one margin back then, americans said they were against it. an opposition to gay marriage became a staple of george bush's winning re-election message in 2004. those numbers have almost completely reversed now. it is now legal in 16 states and the district of columbia, that accounts for more than half of the country's entire population. there is so much change in such a short period of time, which is
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why it can be easy to forget this. if you take a step back, america is actually behind some other countries, some other major countries on this issue. this was a scene more than three years ago in argentina, as that country's senate voted 33-27 to make gay marriage legal there, became the tenth country in the world to do this and it was a pretty big deal. argentina has 40 million people, the second largest nation in south america, also a very catholic country, a 90% catholic country. which is why that senate vote was in many ways a surprise. because as that law was being debated, the catholic church and argentina through its full moral and political weight into fighting it. no one more fiercely, loudly, or stridently than the archbishop of buenos aires. this is no mere legislative bill, he warned. it is a move by the father of lies to confuse and deceive the children of god. you may know that archbishop by a different name today. pope francis. and in 2010, he was cardinal
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jorge brugolio and he was the enemy. here is what the president of argentina, the woman leading the charge for gay marriage had to say about he and his fellow church leaders back then. >> the cultural conservatism that we tend to identify with the catholic church, the pope embodied it as well as anyone back in argentina. we aren't in agreement with the death penalty, he said in 2007, but in argentina we have the death penalty, a child conceived by the rape of a mentally ill or retarded woman can be condemned to death. cardinal became pope francis, liberals, cultural liberals weren't expecting much.
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that is not quite the pope they have gotten. the pope we have gotten caused a worldwide stir when he said about gay people back in july, who am i to judge them if they're seeking the lord in good faith? he gave an interview in september to a major american catholic magazine and said, a person once asked me in a provocative manner if i approved of homosexuality. i replied with another question, tell me. god looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love or reject and condemn this person? we must always consider the person. and that same interview he seemed to suggest the church was putting too much emphasis on social issues. we cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage, the use of crepti i contraceptive methods. this is not possible. when we talk about these issues, we have to talk about them in context. the teaching of the church for that matter is clear and i am a son of the church but it is not
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necessary to talk about these issues all the time. the tone he struck is very different than the tone that has been coming out of rome. maybe forever. some of the energy he has not been putting in cultural war issues, the pope has been putting into economic issues, pushing an aggressive and liberal economic message. just before thanksgiving, he declared to, quote, as long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world's problems or for that matter any problems. we can no longer trust in the unseen forces in the invisible hand of the market. this isn't the pope that most people thought the world was getting back in march. it doesn't matter if those people are on left or on the right or in the middle. here in america, liberals who haven't had much good to say about rome are embracing francis as a hero. president obama, this week, practically gushing over him and
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his message. >> i think pope francis is showing himself to be just an extraordinarily thoughtful and soulful messenger of peace and justice. i haven't had a chance to meet him yet, but everything that i've read, everything i've seen from him indicates the degree to which he is trying to remind us of those core obligations. >> and with president obama saying that, conservatives, catholic and noncatholic conservatives who came to see the catholic church as their political ally are having a hard time with it. >> but the pope here has now gone beyond catholicism here and this is pure political. this is just pure marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope. >> i thought the pope was in favor of the european social model, which is neo socialism, and which fails its own people. >> now, you know, i'm always looking for the historical
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angle. i can't help but think of lyndon johnson. he spent all those years, all those decades in congress and in the senate, going along, placating, doing the bidding of the conservative forces who controlled his immediate political future. this was the lyndon johnson who was the segregationist, but then when he got to the top, he became president, no one controlled him anymore. he was free to speak his mind and act on his conscience. this is the lyndon johnson who ended segregation. i find myself wondering if there is a little lbj in this pope, a conservative cardinal who infuriated the left in argentina and now as pope is becoming something of a liberal icon. here to make sense of who pope francis is and how he is shaping up our politics, we're joined by's benjy sarlin, sarah p posner, ana marie cox is still with us, and ambassador flynn as well. ambassador flynn, i'll start with you. you were an appointee of
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president clinton as the ambassador to the vatican. you are somebody who has fairly conservative views on the cultural issues. when you look at the pope and you listen to the pope right now, some of those clips we played and you think back to how he was in argentina, how do you make sense? do you think there has been an evolution from who he was and what he was owe spousing in argentina and who he is now as pope? >> i see no politics involved here at all. because this is completely consistent with growing up in south boston. i didn't learn my politics from the democratic party or the republican party. i learned it from my parents, from my church, from my community. so the same thing that pope francis is talking about, social and economic justice, the poor, the concern, protection of life, stabilizing families, what he said when he was archbishop of buenos aires, what he's saying now as roman leader of the catholic church, the same thing most catholics learned when we were little kids growing up, so
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i don't see any politics any more than i saw any politics in my church or my religion, i see it as faith, a doctrine and the traditions of the catholic church. now, if people are confused by that, because it doesn't fit a certain ideological mode, whether it be liberal or conservative or democrat or republican, i can't deal with that, but i can tell you what i think and i think i can completely not only understand what pope francis is saying, but agree 100% about what pope francis is saying. is there a difference in tone? of course there is. there was a difference in tone when i was a state representative than what i was a mayor of boston. i was representing the whole city. you want to be helpful, you want to be effective, you want to represent everybody's point of view. that's what pope francis is doing. >> but there is, to me, at least, there is an aspect of politics to this. and specifically if you look at arngentin argentina, a south american country that under the kirchner,
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the husband and wife team that led the country, argentina moved to the left politically. in the time that they were moving to the left, before he became pope, really one of the leading political opposition figures in argentina, we played some of the clips from it, was the pope. have you noticed a change in him since he's become pope? >> i think there is a difference between him opposing the gay marriage bill in argentina, and the comments he made about gay people you should accept them, love them. but that's kind of a typical conservative line. we are opposed to gay marriage, it is the work of the devil, but gay people are humans and we should spread the love of the gospel to them. this is not -- those two things in the conservative mind are not incompatible with one another. >> the line jumped out tat me and a lot of people is who am i to judge. hearing a pope phrase it that way sounded different. also explicitly saying, like, it is a question of emphasis.
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he's making the case for de-emphasizing the social issues and talking more about and acting more on the economic -- >> he's also talking about being less political and being more pastoral. that is the principle emphasis of his interviews and the apostolic exaltation. a small segment of that 85 page or so document where he talks about politics. most of it is about missionizing and evangelization and what the gospel means and now that is significant for someone who sees the conference of the catholic bishops in the united states, for example, as overtly political. i think he's trying to send them a message of being less political and more pastoral, but on the other hand, he's not saying, change your position on the contraceptive -- change your position on abortion, change your position on gay marriage. >> he's become a central player in politics now. >> exactly. what i'm curious about is the affect it will have on catholics
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around the world, because what is interesting is as everyone mentioned here, a lot of the economic talk isn't that unusual. one of the last major speeches from pope benedict was a condemnation of, quote, unregulated capitalism, a lot of the talk about inequality, even pope john paul ii, famous fighter against communism and warned after communism collapsed, capitalism can't just rest on its laurels here has to adjust -- address its own problems. but what is interesting is by de-emphasizing those issues, without necessarily changing anything on them, i think it might let people who might agree more on the economic side, less on the social side, take at least a second look. i'm very struck by what our former host chris hayes has said about the pope. he considers himself somewhat lapse today, but completely in love with this pope, all without an actual change on any position, just because he's -- he feels like there is an olive branch. >> there are some numbers that can back up that kind of sentiment.
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let's put some of the polling up here of american catholics. first of all this is the favorability rating of pope francis among americans. you expect the pope to be popular among catholics. but 89% favorable, 4% unfavorable. now, poll of american catholics, is the church too focused on homosexuality, abortion and contraception? this came out the end of september when he gave the interview. by 3 to 1 margin, they're saying yes, 68 to 23. i do feel like, again, with all the qualifiers about he's not changing church policy and there say lot of consistency here with previous popes, i feel he's tapping into something benjy is talking about, among catholics and noncatholics. >> one of the most important numbers you'll see is the percentage of americans who think that the pope should not -- it is okay to disagree with the pope and the pope should not have a -- does not have a say in their personal lives and political opinions, like 80%. so, but what i want to say about him that i think is so
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remarkable is that his change -- his shift in the pastoral message is actually -- in the classic tradition of christ, in a way, but he's saying that we want to save people, show them the gift of salvation and then we would hope that their morality and political positions would flow from that. the church in the past said we want to make people behave like catholics, don't turn them into catholics, just enforce this certain morality that will make them look as though they're saved. that's not actually the christian tradition, the christian tradition is to offer the gift of -- the gift and then you see how -- and then the behavior changes. and i think that's really amazing. i think the one thing also in that polling that is interesting is if you ask them what the main goal of the church should be, the most popular answer, they don't have a lot of agreement, the most popular answer is 12%, is work on growing the church. work on making the church more relatable to people in general. and i think he's doing that. he's doing that by bringing the focus back to what is -- what is
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wonderful about religion, what it has to offer people, not what it has to say about how you should behave. >> i want to talk more about who pope francis is and what he represents and pick up on a point with the ambassador that sarah raised about maybe a message of sorts being delivered or attempting to be delivered to the conference of bishops here in the united states. i'll ask the store about that when we come back. i don't miss out... you sat out most of our game yesterday! asthma doesn't affect my job... you were out sick last week. my asthma doesn't bother my family... you coughed all through our date night! i hardly use my rescue inhaler at all. what did you say? how about - every day? coping with asthma isn't controlling it. test your level of control at, then talk to your doctor. there may be more you could do for your asthma. that's the sound of car insurance companies these days. here a cheap, there a cheap. everywhere a cheap... you get it. so what if instead of just a cheap choice,
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a week ago today in st. peter's square, bhamarking a wo aids day, a point that sarah was making, suggesting the possibility, we had the clip from his interview with the american catholic magazine in september when he seemed to be talking about de-emphasizing the social issues and talking more about economic issues maybe. not having to talk about abortion, homosexuality all the time. she was suggesting maybe that was a message to the conference of bishops in the united states, very's aggressive and volccal oe social issues. >> the reason why pope francis has become so popular across the world, among catholics and noncatholics as well, he's saying something politically and morally that no one else is
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talking about. political parties aren't talking about this, candidates for political office, he's talking about the disparity and the inequality that exists in society today. i come from a working class community, there are a lot of people who aren't working, not receiving enough wages in order to support their family. the schools are failing them. and he's reaching out to those people, they're not even religious people. he's reaching out to those people in a powerful message that we haven't heard from many of our political leaders in this country in a long, long time. >> he's reaching people on an economic message that just resonates with them at -- >> that's what we want. >> to answer the question, that's the teaching of the church. >> has the church, and specifically talk about the conference of bishops in the united states -- >> i'm not talking about the conference of bishops. i'm talking about the catholic faith. i don't care what cardinals and bishops have to say. i'm talking about -- >> they set the tone. >> no, they don't. no, they don't. i follow my teaching from jesus
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christ and the catholic church, my faith. if the catholic church changed their position, so what, they change their position all the time. but i'm -- i want a consistent position in the teachings of jesus christ. not some people who are trying to become popular, but trying to do the right thing. that's what pope francis is doing. that's why he's so popular. >> i just want to add that there is one group of catholics who is sort of withholding judgment on the economic issues and what the pope is saying really means. and that's feminist catholic theologians, because their view is that, yes, it is fabulous that the pope is talking about economic disparities and we have been talking about those very disparities for a long time. and they're very glad that the pope is re-emphasizing them. but to them, one of the big issues facing women in poverty worldwide is lack of access to reproductive health choices,
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contraception, safe legal abortion, and without changes on those issues they see very little change for women living in poverty around the world. and they see a disparity there in what the pope -- >> and there is no reason to suspect there will be any kind of a change on that. >> in fact, there is reason to believe there won't be, because in his statements about women and the clergy, the way he talks about women, women are nurtur nurturers, he sees a very specific role for women that is not evangelical in the way -- they're not supposed to be part of the power structure of the church and it is a good reason to withhold -- i don't know about withhold judgment, but just not as positive an indicator, the tone has not really changed. >> there is a moment here maybe for the -- an opportunity for the catholic church. i think, you know in the polling suggests here, you look at the message from the american leadership of the catholic church, the message on a lot of cultural issues, the last ten
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years, just this polling we put out on -- is the church too focused on the issue issues, t seems to be an opportunity here to reconnect with what you call the lapsed catholics and pope's message is -- >> i see more people going back to church now than i have before. in my native community of south boston, the churches are filled now. a lot of young people, a lot of young women, a lot of mothers are going back to church. isn't that what the pope is supposed to be doing, bringing people back to the church, bringing people back to christ? and he's bringing them back to christ in the church on a message that they can connect with. i don't know about these polls. i don't know where these poll numbers come from. but i'm telling you where the poll numbers in church, for actual people sitting in the pews, they're delighted with what he's talking about and it is the values they believe in for their family and that's why they're coming back to the
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catholic church. >> we're talking about the political significance in the united states, one of the sort of -- the famous karl rove political project here was to align catholics in the united states with the republican party. he saw that as one of the great -- his permanent republican majority, one of the bedrocks of that was to get catholics into the republican party. and i wonder if you have a pope out now who is talking more about -- stressing more of a social justice, economic message that is not in line with today's republican party, in the united states, if that -- when you start, you start playing like rush limbaugh and the guy from fox business there, they're really upset at the pope now, is it because in a way it also -- he could be blowing up this project to make inroads with catholic voters? >> i think there are conservative catholics, let's set aside rush limbaugh who i presume is not catholic, who are trying to -- they're squirming a little bit, but they're trying to make this all coherent with their economic world view. and they don't want to be seen as dissenters to his message
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they want to make the pope's economic message comport with their economic ideology, even though he was very clear in the recent document about trickle down economics, he was very clear about free market principles, which is basically -- >> trying to mesh that with supply side theory or -- >> yes, but they are trying. >> and in many ways it fits current political moment for the republican party, where even though they are in many ways moving further to the right on economic issues, and inequality, the big popular trend now is to talk more about poverty, rand paul who favors, you know, abolishing the entire department of education, housing and urban development, the balancing the budget in five years delivered a big anti-poverty speech in detroit talking about inequality. paul ryan, whose budget is famous, would slash social spending, has been talking about poverty a lot. he is catholic, i believe. he would probably say, though, there is nothing inconsistent with what he's talking about. just he has specific means to
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deliver it that most -- >> right, but again, the length, thou language the pope used is so specific, not just a conceptual i'm against poverty, we should all fight poverty. he was very specific. >> there is a way he wants to fight poverty that is different than rand paul's way. >> here is the point, though. you know, rush limbaugh has a consistent -- has a constituency, and so does rand paul and all these different people. so what? they're entitled to that point of view, liberal or conservative, libertarian. what catholics are finding appealing about pope francis is he's making a message to them that is consistent with their values that they want to come home to, which they walked away from for a while in the past. they're coming home. it has nothing to do with polls. it has nothing to do with politics. it has nothing to do with parties. it has everything to do with the philosophy and the teachings of the catholic church. which also happens to be very, very popular in the united states.
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>> with the philosophy and teachings of jesus christ. what is the gandhi quote, i like your christ, i don't like your christians. the message that pope francis is giving, the traditional message of the catholic church, the one we hear a lot and the problems the gop are having are somewhat parallel. >> and the democratic party too. >> i think what americans don't like about the gop, what moderates are not liking about the gop now is the feeling of judgment, the feeling of judgment on gay people, the feeling of judgment of women who choose to get abortions or see their doctors about contraception. and the judgment of the catholic church is what i think a lot of people who consider themselves catholic, but lapsed in some way, was the reason why they were avoiding the church. they felt -- >> that quote from him, who am i to judge, he's talking about the tone, that, to me, it sounds look a simple -- >> we address the social and economic justice, inequality. neither party that pope francis is talking about, so if anybody has some criticism, they can criticize american politics.
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and american partisanship. but what i don't think they can do is say that pope francis' points of view on social and economic justice and the teaching of jesus christ is inconsistent with the catholic faith. it is not. >> all right. i want to thank former boston mayor, former ambassador to the vatican ray flynn and sarah posner for joining us today. when you want to run for office but you're not popular where you live, what do you do? scott brown or liz cheney, you move. the art of carpetbagging. that's up next. turn to roc® retinol correxion®. one week, fine lines appear to fade. one month, deep wrinkles look smoother. after one year, skin looks ageless. high performance skincare™ only from roc®. take skincare to the next level with new roc® multi correxion® 5 in 1, proven to hydrate dryness, illuminate dullness, lift sagging, diminish the look of dark spots, and smooth the appearance of wrinkles. high performance skincare™ only from roc®.
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awareness as to the issues that are affecting not only people here in massachusetts -- in new hampshire, but also in massachusetts obviously and maine. i've been to maine, rhode island, new hampshire, connecticut, i've been all over the new england area, certainly. >> if you get confused, start naming all the states. scott brown could probably use a few pointers and we have got a few for him. the tricky art of political carpetbagging. that's up next. isis the creamy n corn chowder. i mean, look at it. so indulgent. did i tell you i am on the... [ both ] chicken pot pie diet! me too! [ male announcer ] so indulgent, you'll never believe they're light. 100-calorie progresso light soups.
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president obama and his agenda. got a lot of help from the lousy economy, his opponent's blunders and he seemed to connect with the swing voter in massachusetts that was not strong enough to hold on to the seat two years later when he ran for a full term and faced a charismatic populist who did know how to run a campaign and beat him by eight points. even in his concession speech, brown made it clear he had not run his last campaign. there was speculation he would run for governor of massachusetts, or for the state's other u.s. senate seat. what no one would have predicted a year ago is that brown had given up altogether on the idea of running in massachusetts. and is now focusing on the state's neighbor to the north, the less blue, more republican friendly state of new hampshire. so he's been taking that pickup truck of his into the granite state, where democratic senator jeanne shaheen will run for re-election next year. the polling shows he might actually have a shot in
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september. shaheen was edging brown by only four points. in order to face shaheen, if he gets that far, brown has to get past some interesting primary competition first. former senator bob smith who lost his re-election in the republican primary to john e. sununu, he left new hampshire, bob smith did, moved to florida, and in 2004 he tried to run for the senate in that state. didn't go through with it, but flirted with doing it all over again in florida, in 2010. and then bob smith moved back to new hampshire, and now he said he's going to run against or try to run against shaheen too, setting up a primary against brown. that is carpetbagging with a twist of boomeranging or something like that. anyway, new hampshire is not the only state with residency issues among candidates this cycle. also liz cheney, who is running in the republican primary against long time wyoming senator mike enzi, yes, it is the state that her -- her very famous father once represented in congress, but she has long
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made her home in virginia. just outside of washington, d.c. so with all of the pitfalls of running for office in another state, not the state you're identified with, we have come up with five easy steps to succeeding as a carpetbagger. to go through them with us, at the table, we have political reporter benjy sarlin, ann lewis, ana marie cox of the guardian and sahil kapur of talking points rejoins us. so, scott brown in new hampshire, the liz cheney in wyoming, i hear that campaign is not going very well. we'll talk about that a little bit in a minute and maybe diagnose it. maybe offer her some friendly advice on how to fix things. let's start going through the rules. i'll put the first one up there. our first rule of successful political carpetbagging is do have a famous name. we think here of an example in new york, 13 years ago, new york state, where hillary clinton, first lady, who was born in illinois, went to school in
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massachusetts, and connecticut, first lady of arkansas, lived in washington, d.c., at the age of 53, she decided her new home was chappaqua, new york. a few months later, this happened. >> you came out and said that issues and ideals matter. jobs matter. down state and up state. health care matters, education matters, the environment matters, social security matters, a woman's right to choose matters. it all matters and i just want to say from the bottom of my heart, thank you, new york. >> so the fact that she was not from new york and was not before identified with new york did not seem to matter to the voters in new york in 2000 or in 2006.
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but, ana, you know her, you're familiar with her. how much as she was playing that campaign and campaigning, how much was she worried about not being seen as a new yorker, what was the strategy around that, did she meet resistance to being an outsider. >> i know that campaign very well. it was not easy. i left the white house to work in that campaign because i knew it would be hard and i wanted to help. here is my first rule. be who you are. don't pretend. i will say that to certain potential candidates now. hillary clinton used -- i may not be from new york, but i will be for new york. i will be your advocate. i will fight for the issues you care about. so that was her way into people to say, for my whole life, i fought for a better life for children, i will do that here. i fought to make sure that other people have a chance, i will do that here. so for her, the mantra was i will be for you. we found voters found that very convincing. >> i wonder if there is an element, you have to look at the culture and the psychology. new york state, you know, 30
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years, 35 years before hillary clinton was elected, robert kennedy, the kennedy family of massachusetts, he came to new york, hes wi was a carpetbagger won. in a state like new york, where there is -- they like the idea of the big name, national politician, who wants to make new york, of course you want to make new york, i wonder if that would sell in every state or some states more resistant it that? >> we're a country this elected a kenyan president. i'm not sure if there is a lot -- >> that's your own unpopular opinion. >> i was going to say, yeah, i think that states that have a really strong identity, you know, texas, new hampshire perhaps wyoming, where the state identity is something that people are proud of, i think you're probably going to run into more problems. but, you know, having a famous name is not going to hurt you. i think -- i do think the number one tip should be married to a president. if you've been married to a president, you probably have a better chance. >> but certain presidents. if you're laura bush, i'm not sure. let's go to rule number two on
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this, though this is sort of this gets the idea of you need a convergence story, a good impressive story. we have an example of this. this is -- we have a full screen. john mccain, first running for the house of arizona, not from arizona in 1982, his opponent in the republican primary tried to make an issue of the carpetbag, he said i wish i could have had the luxury like you growing up and live and spending my entire life in the nice place like the first district of arizona, but i was doing other things. when i think about it now, the place i lived longest in my life was hanoi. >> i think that the compelling story is an important -- the most important thing here. the compelling story for hillary clinton in her case, she did work the retail politics too, she traveled upstate a lot, you saw it in the clip there. >> every county. every county in new york. >> her compelling story was new york is trending blue, it is getting away from what was still then this pataki d'amato giuliani era and she was more in
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tune politically with voters than her opponent. you see liz cheney's first ads are basically her daughter saying, we love wyoming, really, we're from wyoming, behind stead of any real political message. there is not much else to run on. >> wyoming, is it one of those states -- showing you have roots too, obviously liz cheney has her father's roots there, but i wonder about scott brown in new hampshire. what is the story to voters in new hampshire? i'm a republican, i'm from a blue state, you're not as blue, so i want to come here -- >> i moved here for the taxes, which is -- >> a lot of massachusetts people did move there for the taxes, so maybe -- >> live free or die more that may help. i think i agree with your analogy on wyoming, especially because -- this was a problem for liz cheney, she made headlines after she tried to get a fishing license and wasn't there for long enough to get a fishing license. if you can't get a fishing license, that's a sign to voters
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that, maybe you're not really from here. >> you're setting up one of our forth coming rules, we have three more we'll get to. rule number three after this. while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods.
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from the families of aig, happy holidays. unsolicited advice to scott brown and liz cheney on how to and how not to carpetbag in politics, the third rule we came up with was it helps if you're running to your roots. here, for example, al franken technically was not a carpetbagger when he ran for the senate in 2008. he is a native minnesotan. but, you any, to most minneso n minnesotans he was new york's al franken, "saturday night live," all this stuff. when he started flirting with the race, back now ten years, started flirting with the race way in advance, i was thinking of a slogan. if i became a democratic nominee against norm, it would be the only new york jew who was actually raised in minnesota. so he actually was able to -- norm coleman began more associated with minnesota than al franken, but al franken found
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a humorous way of saying he was the native and that coleman wasn't from the state. >> and, of course, minnesotans are welcoming people. the huge state identity for minnesota, which is where i live currently, is welcome, you can be one of us. there is not, like, a -- we're polite. that's the minnesota -- >> i'm also now getting corrected by my producer, al franken was born in new york, moved to minnesota at a young age, grew up there, moved back to new york to pursue a career and then back to minnesota. technically he was a carpetbagger. want to get that correction in. and get to the fourth rule of carpetb carpetbagging, which is in style, do be aware of what your primary dwelling is. liz cheney, headline from the casper star tribune in august, the rip roaring start of the liz cheney senate campaign. liz cheney listed as a ten-year wyomingite, gets fishing license early, she claimed she's been a ten-year resident, even though
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she had been there just 72 days since she had closed on her house when she put the application in. she blamed the clerk for errors. this is one of the many reasons why the liz cheney experiment has not been going well right now. you think she has a natural claim to wyoming roots to her father, but she even get fouled up on this. >> part of this was such a sudden campaign, it feels like she didn't lay the ground work at all. al franken, you saw that quote, from 2003. that's five years before he ran. he was already starting to lay this ground work, put down his roots. liz cheney was so sudden. she didn't take the time to start showing up back in the state, and really establishing herself there. it was all parachuting back in. >> in other countries, other forms of democracy, the place matters so little, you'll take like a party will identify like a promising up and comer and find a district. >> we're a bigger country than most countries with a stronger state identity and the country that started out as a federation of states and not like national
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identity first. i did want to state liz cheney experiment will be my new band name. but also, again, liz cheney's problem is she wants people to sort of back date her residency literally. she's not doing the hillary clinton thing, or the al franken thing of saying, yes, i'm moving there. that's what i've done. i've moved here. >> and here's why -- >> i think you're right about -- benjy is right about the fact she hadn't laid the ground work there. cheney establishment is very strong and they hadn't gotten people on board. alan simpson very strongly -- >> like 6,000 word essay -- >> talking about how lynne cheney -- >> this is not going well. >> didn't lay the ground work with the party. >> the united states system and some other parliamentary systems, countries where you have a national list. but it is in the job description of house members and senators you fight for your district. that's expected here that you
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help your constituents if they have issues at the federal government. so we do have a different way of measuring or of looking at people, will they fight for me, will they be on my side? i don't hear any on my side? i don't hear any of that coming out of liz cheney. >> the liz cheney message amounts to, i believe i should be a nationally prominent republican politician and you need to give me a job and a platform. >> don't have anything to get there. >> and we've seen that in the last weeks. >> it's much more, what you can do for me, and not at all what i can do for you. >> here's what you can do for me, a great campaign message. here's our fifth and final rule for carpetbagging, don't seek refu refuge. the idea is, if you're established politically in one state and you lose, it's going to look really bad if you go to another state and run. here's an example, james buckley ran against chris dodd. he gets trounced, maryland, 1994. bill brock had been a senate
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from tennessee, goes to maryland to run. that didn't work out. here's a famous example, alan keyes hat run several times in maryland, was brought out to illinois when the republican party implode there had in 2004. did not go so well against barack obama. if this rule is right, it does not bode whole for scott brown in new hampshire in 2014 coming off of 2012, a loss in massachusetts. that's our fifth rule. what should we know today? we are going to ask our panelist right after this. my asthma's under control. i get out a lot... except when it's too cold. like the last three weekends.
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all right. it's time to find out what we think our guests should know for the week ahead. ana marie, we'll start with you. >> i'm going to start with "blackfish," it's a documentary about seaworld and the conditions the animals are kept in there. a lot of people have probably seen it. it actually gave cnn its largest numbers in a while when they showed it. but it's available on demand, if you can stomach it. it's a very upsetting documentary for people like me who love animals. >> you should know that patty
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murray and paul ryan are very close to hammering out a deal that would for the first time since 2010 set spending levels and end the practice of lurching from crisis to crisis. the deal isn't final, it's going to mitigate some of the sequester cuts and it's going to be a really, really good thing. >> very quickly, do you think it's going to cover unemployment extension? >> no, it won't. >> you should know this is another big week for health care reform. on wednesday we have kathleen sebelius testifying, which is going to be pretty rough in the house, but this is also one of the first weeks since they started the big marketing campaign to get people to, and we're going to really see how well the site holds up, as if they're hoping, there's a lot more traffic now. so this should be a very big week to keep an eye on health care. >> and here's what i learned this morning. in 1993, bill clinton was giving a speech to the congress and he realized the wrong speech was in the teleprompter and he just kept going until the teleprompter caught up. well, this morning, we saw a bad teleprompter failure, right here, and steve, you just kept going. so just as that example has
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served for, you know, bill clinton's communications skills, i think you're right up there. >> why, that's very nice of you to say. and you are definitely invited back now. i think i had a few more ums and uhs and ehs than clinton did, but we did get through our great teleprompter crisis of 2013. and i know that i fully and completely and enthusiastically support the united states olympic team in all of its endeavors and i am now reading this from the script. go america, usa. usa. i'm sorry i said i cheered for lithuania. i wasn't against america, i just like the underdogs i don't know. i want to thank ana marie cox from the guardian, benji, and ann lewis. thanks for getting up and thank you for joining us. "up" will be back next weekend, same time, same place, but a different host. our friend, krystal ball, will be filling in, so get up with her next saturday and sunday at 8:00 a.m. eastern time, and stick around, because melissa harris-perry is up next. on today's "mhp," the
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republicans bring a new strategy to the ongoing tug-of-war against health care. that can be summed in three words, offense, offense, offense. don't go anywhere. melissa is next. have a great week, everybody. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] everyone deserves the gift of all day pain relief. this season, discover aleve. all day pain relief with just two pills.
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with new roc® multi correxion® 5 in 1, proven to hydrate dryness, illuminate dullness, lift sagging, diminish the look of dark spots, and smooth the appearance of wrinkles. high performance skincare™ only from roc®. this morning, my question. rosa parks did what? plus, the gop's guide to picking up women. and the connection between hip hop, sexuality, and gender. but first, the president has a new playbook. all offense, all the time. good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. i want to talk today about a controversial word. it's a word that has been with us for years. and like it or not, it's indey
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